Mission Statement

Admin wrote:So I think that is a resounding yes to three consuls

Nice to see you beli btw

It wasn't me, i didn't do it, you didn't see me and you can't prove it, i has +3 cloak of invisibility and i'm immoral!!

Belly!


Oh and yeah 3 consuls.

So jonsohns proposal of 1 honourable consul, 1 from the prefects group, 1 from the wider community? Honourable consul acts as tiebreaker?

Seems reasonable and fair

OK, that's it, everyone insists on calling me Beli, therefore and henceforth my user name shall be

Beli ... Beli ... Beli ... Beli ... Beli ... Beli ... Beli ... Beli ... Beli ... Beli ... Beli ... Beli ...

and thus people can learn to spell it right!

Admin wrote:So jonsohns proposal of 1 honourable consul, 1 from the prefects group, 1 from the wider community? Honourable consul acts as tiebreaker?

might as well just copy the other communities set up with 1 "leader" and 2 others to form a council (almost similar to what you see in the senate with Velorum and the other 2 guys)

saiana wrote:

Admin wrote:So jonsohns proposal of 1 honourable consul, 1 from the prefects group, 1 from the wider community? Honourable consul acts as tiebreaker?

might as well just copy the other communities set up with 1 "leader" and 2 others to form a council (almost similar to what you see in the senate with Velorum and the other 2 guys)

Entirely different thing, in that scenario you have three people who make the decisions, but with one of them still being the leader he can veto the votes of others and over rule them. With the tiumvirite system all three have the same rights and neither one can veto the others, it's simply three because then there is always an odd number of votes meaning there can never be a draw, it could just as easily be 5 or 7 etc.

I don't think I will ever learn to spell Grefijfs right

Beli wrote:

saiana wrote:

Admin wrote:So jonsohns proposal of 1 honourable consul, 1 from the prefects group, 1 from the wider community? Honourable consul acts as tiebreaker?

might as well just copy the other communities set up with 1 "leader" and 2 others to form a council (almost similar to what you see in the senate with Velorum and the other 2 guys)

Entirely different thing, in that scenario you have three people who make the decisions, but with one of them still being the leader he can veto the votes of others and over rule them. With the tiumvirite system all three have the same rights and neither one can veto the others, it's simply three because then there is always an odd number of votes meaning there can never be a draw, it could just as easily be 5 or 7 etc.

I wouldn't give 'veto' rights. not to be rude but thats what Sate had previously and he felt the stress of it.

I would also say that some of the planning would need to be ALOT more open, rather than 'i have plans'

In my mind, the honourable consul is actually in no part of the decision making until both elected consuls disagree, then it is a tie breaker vote, if all 3 are in dispute then it goes to majority vote.

And no, it's not like your council set up because there is no "lead" or head do to say. The decision making is still down to the elected consuls.

To that point, consulorship is a way to show people that candidate is fit for leadership, that is why power rests with them mainly, because honourable consuls have proven past leadership, it is not really nessicary for them to exercise it.

Admin wrote:In my mind, the honourable consul is actually in no part of the decision making until both elected consuls disagree, then it is a tie breaker vote, if all 3 are in dispute then it goes to majority vote.

Is what I had in mind aswell, I agree with this.

Okay will make a thread were current members can nominate candidates for the prefect group.

All sounds good, however yes Vikterr a.k.a Leiland is not Cash'Lu but he is that friend of Cash who launched that small stormtrooper RP guild a while back if you remember.

Ah yeah I remember the guy.

hey Beli

miawo wrote:hey Beli

selective!

Who teh hell is Miawo?! Demand explanation!

Quite obvious I think, what domestic animal meows?

A sea horse!

miawo wrote:hey Beli

Hello you gorgeous russian lady you /huggles

I think this system has more negative factors than positives. Imo I feel alot of arguments would rise from this particular idea. I understand that should that be the case, it is a majority vote decision. However, I have known people in past and present, who would deeply dislike not having there own way, then be mardy like a 6 year old, and leave. I also understand that consules etc are picked with much thought and detail, and only the best shall be picked. Although I think this is a very creative and productive idea, I think there is a very bold chance of guild unstabability that could follow. The guild could for example, have a clean division running through it, dividing people of their wants.

Rules and events that are developed and created by majority votes would leave us in a pickle, because the possible mardie people ( no one within the forum ) will purposely spoil the events for everyone, just because they are not getting there own way. I understand its a game, and its not the most important thing in our lives, but fun RP is better than no RP . If this idea does come into the effect I would gladly apply myself to it, however I will feel constantly cautious of the guild collapsing.

Indruma Hale wrote:I think this system has more negative factors than positives. Imo I feel alot of arguments would rise from this particular idea. I understand that should that be the case, it is a majority vote decision. However, I have known people in past and present, who would deeply dislike not having there own way, then be mardy like a 6 year old, and leave. I also understand that consules etc are picked with much thought and detail, and only the best shall be picked. Although I think this is a very creative and productive idea, I think there is a very bold chance of guild unstabability that could follow. The guild could for example, have a clean division running through it, dividing people of their wants.

Rules and events that are developed and created by majority votes would leave us in a pickle, because the possible mardie people ( no one within the forum ) will purposely spoil the events for everyone, just because they are not getting there own way. I understand its a game, and its not the most important thing in our lives, but fun RP is better than no RP . If this idea does come into the effect I would gladly apply myself to it, however I will feel constantly cautious of the guild collapsing.

Sorry but your argument against just doesn't cut the cheese, regardless of how the leadership works there are going to people who whine because they don't get their own way.

One leader deciding for all = Lot's of people annoyed at decisions.
Free for all everyone doing what they want = everybody get's annoyed at everybody else at some point.
Consuls, elected by a majority vote and changed on a regular basis = a few people get upset when they don't get their way.

The argument that consuls will cause the guild to collapse is to be quite frank one of the silliest things i have ever heard anyone say, any other form of leadership has exactly te same effect but worse.

Beli wrote:
Sorry but your argument against just doesn't cut the cheese, regardless of how the leadership works there are going to people who whine because they don't get their own way.

One leader deciding for all = Lot's of people annoyed at decisions.
Free for all everyone doing what they want = everybody get's annoyed at everybody else at some point.
Consuls, elected by a majority vote and changed on a regular basis = a few people get upset when they don't get their way.

The argument that consuls will cause the guild to collapse is to be quite frank one of the silliest things i have ever heard anyone say, any other form of leadership has exactly te same effect but worse.

Beli's got some good points.

we saw what happened with one leader who played everything close to his chest. he ended up amazingly stressed out and left...
free for all just means nothing gets done.

unfortunately there will ALWAYS be cases where someone isn't entirely happy with a situation, this is unavoidable, however the other side of this is that if someone is really unhappy with a decision then they should use a platform like the forum to explain WHY they are unhappy and voice alternative ideas... not just to whine and complain!

admittedly SELF SERVING consulars would screw things up, as they would only be looking at their own position/power/influence and would only be concerned with maintaining their dominance/control over the direction that everyone takes, however if you have someone who can listen to various opinions and produce a solution that holds a majority concensus then thats the person you want!

but another point unfortunately is that people are LAZY! and seem to expect the 'leaders' to produce everything for them exactly to their liking without having to lift a finger themselves! now to be clear I am not aiming this statement at anyone. BUT we have seen this before, people who are more than happy to whine about there not being RP or there not being the RP they quire want etc, but when they themselves were asked to do something they suddenly seem to loose their voice!

saiana wrote:
but another point unfortunately is that people are LAZY! and seem to expect the 'leaders' to produce everything for them exactly to their liking without having to lift a finger themselves! now to be clear I am not aiming this statement at anyone. BUT we have seen this before, people who are more than happy to whine about there not being RP or there not being the RP they quire want etc, but when they themselves were asked to do something they suddenly seem to loose their voice!

Cant agree more. LAZiness was a first step into the pit, where SA end. Big community need more the 2-3 *RP entertainers*.

I don't believe a self serving consular can exist, as all proposals still have to be made in an open forum where people can see them, given that the consulars have to decide between themselves first on proposals, I don't believe two can be corrupt at any one time, if to many things go into dispute and the H.Consul has to interject to many times, an instant re-election is held.

This is to ensure that people serve the people, and not themselves.

However, what people understand is that if YOU make a proposal, unless you have a group of people with you in on it, YOU will be responsible for making that proposal happen.